REVIEW: amazon.co.uk
Benjamin Zephaniah is known for his rappin' rhymes and wild dreadlocks. With the launch of his first children's novel Face, he speaks to Damian Kelleher for Amazon.co.uk about new departures and why he thinks a black woman will one day be Poet Laureate.
You've always written poetry. Why did you decide to write a novel?
Because I was asked. I refused when I was first asked. I said 'No, I don't do novels,' and the publishers said, 'Have a go, start it.' Then when I started to get into it, I couldn't stop. I got to know the characters individually and I walked around thinking what would Martin do in this situation, what would Matthew do here - all those cliched things.
Did it take long to get into a different style of writing?
I have a confession - I haven't read that many novels - and I certainly haven't read that many poets who have written novels. It took me a while to get started but they say when poets write novels it's usually flowery stuff. But mine's not like that, it's quite a straight-talking novel, isn't it?
I wanted to tell a story about people who live round this area (Newham Parents Centre Bookshop in East London). And they're like that here - they like you to cut away and get down to what it's really about. Even when I do my poetry you couldn't tell that I'd read a lot of poetry, I had an idea in my mind of what I wanted to do and I did it.
Sometimes I broke the rules, and if it worked, it worked.
Martin gets caught up in a terrible sequence of events. Did anything like this ever happen to you?
When I was young I cam close to a situation like that - I was a hard, tough kid but one thing I did not do was hard drugs. When I was 16, a friend of mine took some drugs, got high, stole a car and killed himself. Even thought I was young I always remember it. I remember him. It stayed with me.
Why did you choose someone with facial disfigurement as the main character?
I'm very open with people. I don't care what people's sexuality is, what people's race is but I found myself one day staring at someone who was facially disfigured. And I was thinking to myself, I don't do that! I know that sometimes I go to places where they don't see black people, and they stare at me and I don't like it. And I found myself - me of all people - doing it to somebody! And I was fascinated by it, I was thinking, how does he live? How does he get on, does he have a girlfriend? You know, all these things. I was surprised by myself.
A lot of readers will be surprised that you've written your first novel and the main character is white!
He could have been a black kid, but a story about a black kid in this area would have been a little bit expected of me - I wanted to take a character who had felt very little discrimination. He was growing up to be a white, heterosexual male. He's not a racist, he's not a bad kid, he's not even a car thief, it's just one moment of weakness - and he doesn't even want to get in the car, it's just a tiny chink in his armour.
And then his world turns upside down. I wanted to explore discrimination in a way that was not so obvious. I don't think facial discrimination has been written about that much.
Martin starts to discover what it's like to be part of a minority, doesn't he? Are you saying he starts to understand the difficulties that black people face?
I talked to a couple of people and one organisation - Changing Faces - who help people with facial disfigurement. Like many minority groups, they told me that these were similarities but you can't be too general. Very few people have been mugged because they've been disfigured - people don't violently hate them like some people hate blacks. But they have to put up with people staring sometimes, people not wanting to touch them, not wanting to sit next to mem, people talking loudly as if they can't understand English, as thought they have a hearing disability. It would have been a bit too easy to say, "Oh you're all minorities so you all suffer the same kind of discrimination." We all suffer discrimination but it varies; I don't think you can measure suffering by degrees. People have committed suicide because of racial discrimination, people have committed suicide because of facial discrimination.
Who can measure how much a man can take? It's impossible.
There are some very dark passages in the book, aren't there. Take that scene in the park...
One person I met who was disfigured said something to me that inspired that scene in the park where Martin wakes up and the kids are laughing at him. He said it was really incredible when you get a gang of kids - they've seen a monster movie and they think that you are just a horrible monster. You can't really explain to them.
That's difficult-they're just small kids.
Don't you worry it's very tough for your readers to take?
No, I just felt I had to tell it like it is. A friend of mine the other day who reads a lot of novels - about 4 or 5 a week - told me "I don't like realistic novels" and I thought, well you're not going to like mine! But there is another side to it. There's another character Anthony, who's got a really disfigured face. He was inspired by someone I met. He's got one eye up here, and his mouth down there, but he's the life and soul of the party - a real ladies' man! And I thought Martin should meet someone who's born like that. The people I've met don't talk so much about their need to readjust as other peoples' need to readjust. And there is a similarity there with racism. I can't adjust to being black; it's the racists who'll have to adjust - I grew up in a very male dominated household where the girls do this and the boys do that. When I was coming to terms with my sexist attitude, I couldn't go to women and say "You've gotta cool down", I had to change my behaviour.
Your poetry is very honest too, isn't it?
Kids like my poetry because it's not just about furry animals, it's about animals that go to slaughter. It's about getting bullied in the classroom. That's what happens in the real world, every day kids watch the news. A lot of letters I get from kids is about that. They say "I've been reading some stuff and it's all airy-fairy. But I'm a vegetarian and I'm passionate for animals and I can relate to your stuff." I get letters from kids now who are dyslexic. They see me as a role model to do what I do. Not just for being dyslexic, but for also writing about it.
So your poetry strikes a real chord with kids today?
I didn't consciously set out to do that. I thought, what would I want to hear?
What would I want to do? What would I want to listen to? What concerned me was the issues that matter to me; I ask myself, what am I not hearing? I like to come at it from a slightly different angle.
Your poems go down well in the class, don't they?
I've heard from various teachers that they've been trying to read my poems in class and they're struggling with it, and then a kid gets up and goes "I know how to do it!" and he just starts rapping it out. I've done a reading before and had a teacher there and some of the pupils. And the pupils are going, "It's not cool to be in the same place as you teacher, but we want to see you, man!"
Is it true that you're one of Nelson Mandela's favourite poets?
Yeah, yeah, I've met him a few times. It's a long story that goes back away.
While he was in prison he read some of my work, then someone gave him some tapes of mine. When he came out of prison he invited me to host a concert at the Albert Hall in his name. I'm going back again soon. I love it, I love it. I don't have any problems working there, I never have to explain myself.
Your name was mentioned as a possible candidate for the Poet Laureate wasn't it?
When it was all happening, I had a lot of press knocking on my door and I absolutely refused to talk to them about it. I think it's a kind of outdated idea, I think it could survive in a new way but it needs modernising. I actually stated some of my ideas for modernising it and it's interesting that some of them actually came in - which was that the Poet Laureate should get paid some proper money. Part of the problem is that they pay money to a lot of poets who don't need the money anyway! Poets should thrive on freedom, should thrive on the right to criticise, the right to ask questions that scratch you the wrong way. It's a kind of anti-poetry post, almost. But things are moving on. One day - and this is my prophecy and it may be a long time after me and you - there is going to be a black woman Poet Laureate. It's just a matter of time, I actually think that some institution - the Poetry Society, or a newspaper or someone should actually say "Well, all right then, let's have a People's Laureate, Lets' do it ourselves."
You're involved in so many different societies and organisations, aren't you? When do you find the time?
I care about all these things passionately. I think there are few poets who would be seen as political poets. Most of them are linked to organisations. But it really does ground you.
I was in a primary school Hill of Bengali kids the other day. One of them said to me, "What is your full name?" And I said, "Benjamin Obadiah Iqbal Zephaniah," and I told him that my name is Jewish, Christian and Muslim. And the kid said, "You should be in me United Nations! You could make a lot of peace." That's from a primary school kid!
Will there be more novels now?
When I did number one, I thought, that's it, no more! But I must admit I'm getting ideas for another one. It's all boiling up in my head.
